John 14:28
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
When the limited human mind is introduced to the mystery of our unlimited God, it either accepts the reality of God and it’s complexities by faith, or it falters in attempting to make God understandable. God is beyond us in every way. We have not been able to even fully comprehend what God has revealed about Himself to us. It is impossible to know everything about God. The God whom you know everything about is not the God we worship.
We relate with God by faith alone. To apply your mind and reasoning only is not sufficient to understand God, instead, it will be an exercise in futility. Every time we approach the subject of God, we do so with the trembling and humility of a student who knows completely nothing and is willing to learn.
Our basis for understanding God, our premise of all arguments is the Biblical revelation. We align all our knowledge of God with what the Bible says, and not what some great father of faith said or wrote. Fathers and mothers of faith come later to affirm what we have confirmed from scriptures. Great theologians may guide us in understanding scriptural revelation, but our conviction will be based on confirming that this is what the Bible says.
What we believe about God is what the Bible says. Not what the Bible says in one verse or text, but what the Bible says conclusively in various texts put together. If we are therefore to find out if Jesus, God the Son, is inferior to God the Father, we will not ask Pastors, Theologians, teachers, pioneers of faith, fathers of faith, etc. We will ask the Bible to tell us.
Where the Bible seems to contradict itself, we isolate the difficult text, then study its context and words to establish what we could be missing. Many times isolating the difficult text for further study solves the problem. But if the difficult text remains troublesome, we leave it until when God sheds more light on it. We cannot build a doctrine on any contentious text. A contentious text cannot be a basis of a major argument for or against biblical teaching.
Some people have used the above-quoted text to argue that Jesus is not God or is an inferior God. Such an argument is very serious and threatening to basic tenets of Christianity. To say that Jesus is an inferior God is to turn Christianity from being monotheistic(belief in one God) to polytheistic(belief in many gods). To say that Jesus is not God is to demand a completely new interpretation of the so many texts that refer to Jesus as being God divine. To say Jesus is not God will require a new understanding of incarnation (when God became a human being). It is not a small or easy subject to engage in and suggest that Jesus is inferior to God the Father. The implications are humongous. Of course, we also know that the proponents of such views are keen to reject the doctrine of the trinity for their own ulterior motives. But we will respond with an assumption that that is not their intention.
Concerns about the biblical basis of the trinity have been exhaustively argued on this website reikesis.com. All you do is search for the site and then go to its search slot, type trinity, and search. I will share some links here. The Trinity, An Introduction. A Question On Trinity. Those two links will address the trinity question for now. If the links can’t open, go straight to reikesis.com and search for them.
Jesus Christ, who is God the Son, existed before He was born in Bethlehem, see John 17:5. Before the world was created Jesus existed. Before creation, Jesus existed, therefore He is not a creature. He did not exist as a subservient creature but as one sharing the same glory with God, which means God. That is why the Bible tells us that His coming on earth required that He leaves glory to be human, see Philippians 2:6. The Bible tells us Jesus did not consider being equal with God as being too important compared to coming to save us. Equal with God, not under God, not over God. Only God is equal to God. That text in Philippians tells us that Jesus was equal to God. John 10:30 tells us God the Father and God the Son are one.
So far we conclude that Jesus existed before any creation took place, see also John 1:1-3. We also conclude that from the few Bible texts above, God the Father and God the Son are equal. God the Father is God. God the Son is God and not inferior. Therefore where did the issue of inferiority come from?
For purposes of our salvation, God the Father became Father without having a wife and kids as we understand fatherhood. For purposes of our salvation, God the Son became a Son, yet he had existed as God before His Bethlehem birth. Why did they become Father and Son? This was to help us understand and appreciate what sin had cost the Godhead and how much God loved us. Fatherhood and sonship were for our understanding and appreciation. Fatherhood and sonship of God should not be seen from the poor limited human perception.
Hebrews 1:5. For purposes of our salvation, we, therefore, understand the submission of Jesus to God the Father and scriptures that suggest so. Jesus submitted to demonstrate God’s love and what it took God to save us.
John 14:23-24 Jesus explains His relationship with God the Father and how we are to relate with them. John 14:26 Jesus explains the role of the Holy Spirit in our salvation. Therefore this pericope is concerned with the role of the Godhead in our salvation. The passage is about our salvation and what each member of the Godhead has done for us to be saved. The passage is not about the eternal nature of God or how they eternally relate. Therefore when Jesu says that the Father is greater than Him, He is referring to their relationship in the plan of our salvation and not their eternal relationship and nature. For the limited purpose of our salvation which will be completed when we enter into eternal life, God the Father will be perceived as superior to the Son. It was not always this way and will not always be this way.
When Colossians 1:18 refers to Jesus as the firstborn, it is in relation to resurrection to eternal life. Firstborn in the sense of correcting the failures of Adam who led the human race to sin and death. This is the message of Romans 5:19 (actually Rom 5:12-19). Therefore Jesus is figuratively the firstborn. He became human to save us from sin. That does not make Jesus a creature inferior to God the Father.
Jesus was not forced to submit to God the Father, He did it voluntarily for purposes of our salvation, note the language of the sovereignty of the Son, see John 10:17-18. After our salvation at the cross, Jesus was restored to His full God status. Hebrews 1:8, God the Father refers to Jesus as God and restores to Him an eternal throne with the eternal kingdom. Jesus is eternally God and never inferior. Jesus submitted to God the Father willingly in order to demonstrate and facilitate our salvation. This was for a limited time. It is this limited time that the text refers to when Jesus says, that the Father is greater than Him. Jesus will eternally have a human body, but He will not continue carrying the human limitations he had while on earth.
The following Bible texts show that Jesus is God in every sense and never inferior to God the Father.
- John 17:5, 10:30 Jesus claimed to have existed before creation and that He is equal to God
- John 8:46 He was free from personal sin
- Mark 2:5-10 He forgave sins
- John 11:25 He claimed power over death and the ability to raise the dead
- Matthew 25:31-45 He claimed to be the final judge of the world
Jesus is fully God and in no way inferior or superior to God the Father and or God the Holy Spirit. How God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct beings yet one God is a mystery of God that requires faith. We have one God. Three distinct beings making the trinity which some prefer to refer to as the Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches and we accept it by faith, appreciating that we may never fully understand God.
We share many Bible teachings with many other groups. We believe in the Bible and many other groups opposed to us believe in the Bible. Sharing a belief doesn’t make the belief false. We share the trinity teaching with others, that doesn’t mean it is not biblical.
Jesus is God our eternal Saviour. may He save you and me daily and eternally, Amen!
Amen Ps and thank you i have shared it with some friends as i fit into the gaps that most Pastors dont address and those are the ones being questioned the most.
Jesus is God …Amen.
Swearing i found most interesting that its a day to day thing.
I’ve stopped to think why till i read what u wrote and thank you man of God.
Glory to God my brother!
Amen
Amen
Amen. Very insightful.
Hallelujah!
Amen
Amen
Colossians 1:16. Thanks for the elaboration. I have always sought to understand it but couldn’t. Thanks.
Glory to God!
Amen 🙏
Jesus is God, my eternal Saviour.
May He save me daily and eternally to His honour and glory.
Happy Sabbath my Pastor.
Blessings on you!
Amen and a blessed Sabbath
Amen
Aaaameeen…….
Amen
Glory to God Daktari,may God give you more revelation
Glory to God!
What is revealed in the Bible is and will not be a mistry KJV Proverbs 8:22-25
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Proverbs 8:1
Doth not wisdom cry,
And understanding put forth her voice?
Proverbs 8:11
For wisdom is better than rubies;
And all the things that may be desired are not to be compared unto it.
Proverbs 8:12
I wisdom have made prudence my dwelling,
And find out knowledge and discretion.
Proverbs is a book concerned about two major things, wisdom and foolishness.
Proverbs 7 tells us about a Youngman who is foolish enough to follow the temptations of a prostitute.
Proverbs 7 ends with a warning to the sons of Solomon reading these words to avoid the prostitute and her attendant temptations
Since the Bible was not written with chapters and verses, the words of Chapter 8 are a continuation of Chapter 7
The sons who read these words of wisdom are advised to listen to the call of wisdom. From this point on, Solomon talks more about wisdom in order to win his readers to appreciate and apply wisdom in their life
The burden of chapter 8 is to show that wisdom is a better option
Chapter 8 tells us that wisdom originates eternally from God
Chapter 8 tells the readers that God used wisdom to create the world and we too should use wisdom to resist temptations and live a quality life
In chapter 8 wisdom is praised and made attractive
When interpreting the Bible, we first understand what this meant to the first readers of these inspired words, before seeking a deeper hidden meaning
The first meaning of these words is a basic reference to wisdom as a necessity that God used and we too should use in our life
The call of wisdom in chapter 7 is contrasted with the call of the prostitute in chapter 8
The first and obvious meaning of these texts in chapter 8 is a reference to wisdom as we know it
While the passages seem to speak about Jesus and there is a lot of language similarity with the language used elsewhere to refer to Jesus, such a meaning would be allegorical, meaning it is not the first and obvious meaning of the passage. Therefore since it is not the first and obvious meaning of the passage, it must be the less forceful text to use in building a doctrine on the divinity of Jesus. It falls under controversial texts since it has been at the center of Arian controversy ever since. Solid teaching of scripture cannot be based on allegorical interpretations only. To give this text the meaning that Jesus was created will require not an obvious interpretation, but an allegorical interpretation.
There are many passages that prophetically refer to Jesus directly and others allegorically or indirectly or needing an explanation for them to be understood. When building doctrine on Christ, we build the basis with the direct texts and then later apply the less obvious or those which require a lot of explanation for them to refer to Jesus. Our major point of argument therefore is never allegorical texts or less obvious, since they may contradict with clear scripture. This text is therefore allegorical if it is to be used in referring to Jesus and must therefore be made subject to the other obvious texts. Where this text contradicts the obvious texts, this text is dropped and the obvious texts upheld.
KJV Proverbs 30:4
4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?
What I know is that there is the Father and his son Jesus Christ our redeemer nevertheless He is God by the fact that he has inherited a better name than angels
Noted
OK pastor
Welcome sir!
The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father’s throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both. About the throne gathered the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng—“ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands” (Revelation 5:11.), the most exalted angels, as ministers and subjects, rejoicing in the light that fell upon them from the presence of the Deity. Before the assembled inhabitants of heaven the King declared that none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will. The Son of God had wrought the Father’s will in the creation of all the hosts of heaven; and to Him, as well as to God, their homage and allegiance were due. Christ was still to exercise divine power, in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants. But in all this He would not seek power or exaltation for Himself contrary to God’s plan, but would exalt the Father’s glory and execute His purposes of beneficence and love. PP 36.2
Pastor l don’t understand how I can harmonize this statement and the statement that is in our fundamental beliefs about the trinity
Highlight the two statements that are not in harmony, just the two, not the whole passage, for now, just those two. Pick the contradictory sentences and share them here, then we prayerfully assess and respond to them.
Meanwhile it is important to note that the Fatherhood of God the Father and the Sonship of God the Son did not always exist in the eternal past, these are the plans of salvation that were in place before the foundation of the world was laid. God the Father became the Father for purposes of our salvation. God the Son became Son for purposes of our salvation. One seeming to be subject to the other was for purposes of our salvation.
The passage you have quoted above PP 36.2 narrates the plan of salvation where Fatherhood of the God the Father applies and Sonship of God the Son applies, where one is subject to the other. The passage does not address the divinity or divine nature of God minus the plan of salvation.
Trinity or Godhead teaching is an attempt to explain the nature of God with or without the plan of salvation. Without the plan of Salvation God the Father would still exist eternally but not as God the Father, but just as God. Without the plan of salvation God the Son would still exist eternally but not as God the Son, but just as God.
If you separate who God made Himself to be in order to save us and what God has just always been and will always be, you will easily understand the revealed nature of our triune God…
Pastor naomba unifumilie tu.
We will revisit the harmonization shortly but on the statement you’ve brought above about the fatherhood and son hood of which you’ve said did not exist from eternity but was a design made for salvation of mankind, in other words they, the father and the son are role playing, does it mean that after sin has been dealt with, the atonement has been completed a new earth and a new heaven have been created, is Jesus going to cease to have the nature of man or he did leave that nature after he ascended to the father?
Jesus will continue bearing the human body into future eternity as a celebration of our salvation
Let this matter rest here so that we do not engage in an endless debate
I prefer brief, precise and discussion with an end
State your position, explain it briefly and let the matter end…otherwise, if we are not structured, we will keep discussing until we start repeating what we had already said…time is of great value in these busy days
For example…my position is Jesus is 100% God from eternity past to future eternity, my belief is based on statements by Jesus in several places in the gospels and I have explained them in my brief articles here…
Also, state your position and basis in one or two sentences then we proceed or end the matter so that we do not produce articles in the comment section of an article
Thank you so much!
Pastor to have bothered you so much, just email me and we can talk me and you please :[email protected]
No sir, you didn’t bother me, we just needed to be succinct, so that we do not dwell one thing too long at the expense of all else. We shall talk on the phone to wrap it up properly!
Sorry
No problem, we will talk on phone!